Paternity Fraud

[Grandpappy Hyerdung]

The biggest fraud in the history of mankind is paternity fraud. In

the

late forties a "study" of 1000 newborns indicated that 1 in 10
husbands was excluded as the father. The exclusion was based on blood
type alone. DNA testing would have revealed a much higher rate.

You mean that when Joseph married Mary, he was deceived? Shocking!

He was just a simple old carpenter who in fact was deceived. But more likely
a kind older man who didin't want to see Mary stoned to death by the
barbaric yids.

:-)
The biggest fraud in the history of womankind is the male godhead, I
guess. In the meantime, every father has the RIGHT to have his
children tested for DNA. So 'quityerbitchin'.

If the rate of paternity fraud was in the order of 15% in the

forties,

what do you think it is today?

I don't see anything in society that would have caused the rate to
change, but evenso, since fathers have the right to have the DNA of
their own kids tested, what difference could it possibly make?

Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

How many grandpas proudly extolled the superiority of their grandsons,

ignorant of the fact that the superiority came from a superior stud

in

no way related to poor grandpa.

Who cares? If gramps cared that much he could have his son's DNA

I should have had yours tested. Any man who wants to have his willy cut off
and become a female is no relation of mine. I should have known something
nasty was going on when your grandmammy was spending too much time in the
woodshed when those circus freaks were in town.

tested now. Apparently, most grampas enjoyed raising the sons they did
raise. It is probably relatively unimportant to them at this point in
time, to disavow parenting.

What primitive sluts most women are.

Yadda, yadda.... Women today don't even care what you bitter boys call
them; they lift their eyes skyward, call you a dickwad in return,

No lady would use such language.


and

move on.
They slavishly serve the dictates of our primitive past. They have not
evolved, sexually, in keeping with the male evolution.
Sure they have. Women today have evolved right past you when it comes
to sex. Didn't you watch 'sex and the city'?

Decent females don't behave like the bitches from hymietown.



They boink who they

want, marry if they wish, and only give life to the children they want.
I'd say that was hugely evolutionary.
They still lust after the biggest, strongest> thug in the herd even as
intelligence now is the real indicator of superiority.
So then, you have an explanation for why 8% of women who are genetic
celebrities

Of course you're joking. 8%? haha I doubt if 1 female in a 1000 could be
considered beautiful. The rest are all just part of the herd.



are chased and wooed by 89% of the world's men, and you

call women Neanderthals? :-)

Civilized man has always attempted to control the sexuality of woman.

Indeed. That's my point. But today it does them little good because
women have told them to fuck off.

Not if they get a knuckle sandwich for their disrespect :o)

Today all such controls have been abandoned. The result is complete
chaos.

There was once a Monk who sat in the town square and meditated for

bullshit

Females are like flies they land on shit.

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

Which, of course, makes the men the whoremongers.

Females are like flies they land on shit.

Which, of course, means that males are shit?

Paracelsus, the 16th-century Swiss chemist (a man), believed that if you
cooked human sperm and horse dung for 40 days, you could make a small man,
albeit one without a soul.

Whatever possessed this man to believe shit is needed to create a man? Any
ideas?

Heidi

[Avenger]

(snip)
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

.

Females are like flies they land on shit.

Yes, I agree grandpappy.

[Heidi Graw]

Post by Avenger

(snip)
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

.

Females are like flies they land on shit.

Yes, I agree grandpappy.

Suit yourselves, boys. According to the above, men are the whoremongers and
the shit that women fall for.

You guys said it, not I! ;-)

Heidi

[Rob]

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Avenger

(snip)
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

.

Females are like flies they land on shit.

Yes, I agree grandpappy.

Suit yourselves, boys. According to the above, men are the

whoremongers and

Post by Heidi Graw
the shit that women fall for.
You guys said it, not I! ;-)

Paternity fraud lies at the root of much pain and domestic violence.
Try to deflect your ugly banter with a patronising smiley all you like,
it doesn't make the deceit any more acceptable, or a wilful denial of
the problem any more caring.

[Society]

Post by Heidi Graw

Grandpappy Hyerdung rubbed granddaughter's doo-doo back in her face...
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females
have always been whores.

Which, of course, makes the men the whoremongers.

That doesn't automatically follow, Heidi.
Truth be told, women whoremonger
themselves. And ONLY women can
make a paternity fraud whore.

[Heidi Graw]

Post by Society

Post by Heidi Graw

Grandpappy Hyerdung rubbed granddaughter's doo-doo back in her face...
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females
have always been whores.

Which, of course, makes the men the whoremongers.

That doesn't automatically follow, Heidi.

Sure it does. The whore needs someone to have sex with, doesn't she? Her
partner would be that whoremonger!

Post by Society
Truth be told, women whoremonger
themselves.

Masturbation doesn't qualify as whoring around.

Post by Society
And ONLY women can
make a paternity fraud whore.

Which still requires a whoremonger had to have made use of the whore!

Heidi

[greg]

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Society

Post by Heidi Graw

Grandpappy Hyerdung rubbed granddaughter's doo-doo back in her face...
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females
have always been whores.

Which, of course, makes the men the whoremongers.

That doesn't automatically follow, Heidi.

Sure it does. The whore needs someone to have sex with, doesn't she? Her
partner would be that whoremonger!

Post by Society
Truth be told, women whoremonger
themselves.

Masturbation doesn't qualify as whoring around.

Post by Society
And ONLY women can
make a paternity fraud whore.

Which still requires a whoremonger had to have made use of the whore!

Enough of this crap. It takes two to tango and three to cuckold.
ONLY women commit paternity fraud.

Post by Heidi Graw
Heidi

[Dave Symn]

Post by Heidi Graw
Paracelsus, the 16th-century Swiss chemist (a man), believed that if you
cooked human sperm and horse dung for 40 days, you could make a small man,
albeit one without a soul.
Whatever possessed this man to believe shit is needed to create a man? Any
ideas?

you're just mad because he excluded women from his k00k theories. He
obviously didnt even TRY to make one. Perhaps he figured he could NEVER
possibly get ENOUGH shit to make a woman.

[Society]

Heidi Graw claimed...

Post by Heidi Graw
Paracelsus, the 16th-century Swiss chemist (a man),
believed [...]

you're just mad because [...]

The correct response is "cite?"

Feminists and their excuse-making fellow travellers
have pulled lies* out of their behinds** so many times
that the rational person refuses to take any of their
claims at face value. Instead, the rational person
insists on very solid evidence before bothering to
respond to feminist blatherings.

NOTES:

*For a lengthy (altho' incomplete) list of major
feminist Big Lies, see the sig of the post at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=***@corp.supernews.com

** From Rule One of "Advice for Newly Assimilated
FemiBorg Drones" by Rowena
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=k5Fce.34$***@typhoon.sonic.net
--
[W]omen have their own totalitarian tendencies.
They will if allowed impose a seamless tyranny
of suffocating safety, social control, and
political propriety. Men are happy for men
to be men and women to be women; women want us
all to be women.

Fred Reed, "Driving Down Unknown Roads"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed30.html
(April 2, 2004)

[Heidi Graw]

Post by Society

Heidi Graw claimed...

Post by Heidi Graw
Paracelsus, the 16th-century Swiss chemist (a man),
believed [...]

you're just mad because [...]

The correct response is "cite?"

Reader's Digest "ABC of the Human Body" - A Family Answer Book. p. 284
inside a section titled "Early Theories: The Mystery of Human Reproduction"

The book's ISBN 0-89577-220-5 a 1987 printing.

But, I guess you'll claim Reader's Digest is a feminazi organization which
doesn't get their facts straight and which is incapable of doing reliable
and honest research. ;-)

Heidi

[Michael Snyder]

Post by Society
*For a lengthy (altho' incomplete) list of major

Man! I've got to put that one up on socmen.org... ;-)

[m***@yahoo.com]

Hello Heidi,

Post by Heidi Graw

(snip)
Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.

Which, of course, makes the men the whoremongers.

As Thomas Aquinas put it, societies that honor and tolerate
prostitution provide a "sewer for sin" so that men who needed
a sexual release could fulfill their urges. Otherwise, such
men would tempt and manipulate virtuous women into becoming
whores creating a system that would make all women into whores
and all men into whoremongers.

So yes, Heidi, all men do ultimately become whoremongers and
those men who are whoremongers often push other women into
becoming whores. Your observation has been made, oh, say,
700 years ago or so. :-)

I enjoy shocking people by sometimes dropping a bomb on them
that I've "whoremongered" (not a good term since it implies
I do this every weekend. :-) But for me, it was liberating
to openly pay for a prostitute rather than engage in the
paid song and dance routine I had to do with modern courtship
rituals. At least with a prostitute, I didn't have to pay
50 bucks for dinner AND tell them I loved them for their mind. :-)
I just paid the 50 bucks.

As it turned out, this left me free to say truthfully,
when it applied :-), that they did have an interesting mind
and to appreciate "normal" women better. I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.
(I probably will have to sit in the waiting room. :-)

Post by Heidi Graw

Females are like flies they land on shit.

Which, of course, means that males are shit?

Good comeback!

But if I may elaborate for him, women today have a reputation
for liking "jerks" or bad-boys. Think about it: 30 years
of hard-core feminism has only seen women needing more protection
from wife beaters and deadbeats.

Post by Heidi Graw
Paracelsus, the 16th-century Swiss chemist (a man), believed that if you
cooked human sperm and horse dung for 40 days, you could make a small man,
albeit one without a soul.
Whatever possessed this man to believe shit is needed to create a man? Any
ideas?
Heidi

Probably the bible and the fact that farms were much
more prevalent in the mindset of educated men than today.

You ought to watch the South Park episode where Mr. Hankee,
the Christmas Poo, educates his children about how shit
is the most important substance on Earth. I love the lion
king rendition.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a brothel! Not
in this day and age or any other! You have no idea just what sort of
disease the prostitute has. She could be HIV positive! And just think of
all the other low-lifes who've had their disease infested pricks poking
around in her. YUK!!!

Instead of buying him a pass at some filth, it would be much safer if you
bought him a ticket to bungee jump or fall out of an airplane clinging to a
trained and fully qualified parachutists. I'll bet he'd find either of
those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some strange
woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

Don't do it! Really! Far better to just let your son find himself a nice
girlfriend who hasn't been around the block too many times and let him do
this when *he* feels ready for sex....not when *you* think it's time!

I think I've had sufficiently strong discussions with my own sons that I'm
pretty sure they will never ever use a prostitute no matter how desperate
they are. Better to just masturbate.

...and if you choose to have sex, wear a condom! Never leave home without
one! ;-)

Heidi

[Hyerdahl]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a

brothel! Not

in this day and age or any other!

Mark doesn't know the meaning of love, Heidi.


You have no idea just what sort of disease the prostitute has. She
could be HIV positive! And just think of all the other low-lifes
who've had their disease infested pricks poking around in her. YUK!!!

Well, Mark has also forgotten, that there is another parent (the mom)
who may indeed have something to say about her son's safety. And,
she's more than likely to be divorced with sole custody.

Instead of buying him a pass at some filth, it would be much safer if you
bought him a ticket to bungee jump or fall out of an airplane

clinging to a

trained and fully qualified parachutists. I'll bet he'd find either of
those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some strange
woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

He's also putting down his son's ability to get laid without paying for
it; I guess Mark is just trying to live thru his non-existent son, and
realizing that he, Mark, had to pay every time. His would-be son may
have much more to offer a woman than Mark ever had, and I'm not really
speaking of material things.

Don't do it! Really! Far better to just let your son find himself a nice
girlfriend who hasn't been around the block too many times and let him do
this when *he* feels ready for sex....not when *you* think it's time!

Well, arrogant fathers who do this sort of thing are not loved or
admired by their sons; they may be feared, tho. I suspect that's how
Mark wants to live his life, ie. by controlling others because he
cannot control himself. It makes him feel a bit 'taller' in the
saddle.

I think I've had sufficiently strong discussions with my own sons that I'm
pretty sure they will never ever use a prostitute no matter how desperate
they are. Better to just masturbate.

Sex is certainly only one part of life. When a person makes that part
the part that controls, they might make choices that harm or end the
other parts of life. Yes, I concur with your advice. And, young men
without the need to control others can indeed control themselves.

...and if you choose to have sex, wear a condom! Never leave home without
one! ;-)

Yup.

Heidi

[Heidi Graw]

Post by Hyerdahl

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

(snip)

Post by Hyerdahl
He's also putting down his son's ability to get laid without paying for
it; I guess Mark is just trying to live thru his non-existent son, and
realizing that he, Mark, had to pay every time. His would-be son may
have much more to offer a woman than Mark ever had, and I'm not really
speaking of material things.

Mark would also be exposing his son to a prostitute who may have herpes.
The pimp who kidnapped this woman and drugged and beat her into compliance
couldn't care less who the clients are...be they herpes infected men or not.
These other herpes infected men could pass the virus on to the prostitute.
Mark's son could catch it and infect his future wife with this disease. And
look what would happen to Mark's grandchildren:

"If a woman has her first episode of genital herpes while she is pregnant,
she can pass the virus to her unborn child and may deliver a premature baby.
Half of the babies infected with herpes either die or suffer from damage to
their nerves. A baby born with herpes can develop serious problems that may
affect the brain, the skin, or the eyes. If babies born with herpes are
treated immediately with acyclovir, their chances of being healthy are
increased."

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm

So, not only would he be risking his son's health, but he'd be killing his
own grandchildren, too!

Mark??? Is this what you want? Kill your grandchildren or severely disable
them by buying your son a prostitute for his 16th birthday?

What an unbelievably irresponsible thing to do!

Heidi

[Hyerdahl]

Post by Hyerdahl

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his

birthday.

(snip)

Post by Hyerdahl
He's also putting down his son's ability to get laid without paying for
it; I guess Mark is just trying to live thru his non-existent son, and
realizing that he, Mark, had to pay every time. His would-be son may
have much more to offer a woman than Mark ever had, and I'm not really
speaking of material things.

Mark would also be exposing his son to a prostitute who may have herpes.
The pimp who kidnapped this woman and drugged and beat her into compliance
couldn't care less who the clients are...be they herpes infected men or not.
These other herpes infected men could pass the virus on to the

prostitute.

Mark's son could catch it and infect his future wife with this

disease. And
Sure.

"If a woman has her first episode of genital herpes while she is pregnant,
she can pass the virus to her unborn child and may deliver a

premature baby.

Half of the babies infected with herpes either die or suffer from damage to
their nerves. A baby born with herpes can develop serious problems that may
affect the brain, the skin, or the eyes. If babies born with herpes are
treated immediately with acyclovir, their chances of being healthy are
increased."

Mark is thinking with his little brain again. His big one is only used
for hats.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm
So, not only would he be risking his son's health, but he'd be

killing his

own grandchildren, too!
Mark??? Is this what you want? Kill your grandchildren or severely disable
them by buying your son a prostitute for his 16th birthday?
What an unbelievably irresponsible thing to do!

Yup. Whatever made you think a man who buys a wife can be
"responsible"?

Heidi

[Avenger]

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by Hyerdahl

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his

birthday.

(snip)

Post by Hyerdahl
He's also putting down his son's ability to get laid without paying

for

Post by Hyerdahl
it; I guess Mark is just trying to live thru his non-existent son,

and

Post by Hyerdahl
realizing that he, Mark, had to pay every time. His would-be son

may

Post by Hyerdahl
have much more to offer a woman than Mark ever had, and I'm not

really

Post by Hyerdahl
speaking of material things.

Mark would also be exposing his son to a prostitute who may have

herpes.

The pimp who kidnapped this woman and drugged and beat her into

compliance

Actually it's the girls who go to the pimp and beg him to take them on. You
don't know very much do you wacko? Maybe you should get out of grandpappy's
cellar and see the world. Get a job too, earn your keep.

Post by m***@yahoo.com

couldn't care less who the clients are...be they herpes infected men

or not.

These other herpes infected men could pass the virus on to the

prostitute.

Mark's son could catch it and infect his future wife with this

disease.

It's a minor disease and besides 1/2 the people carry the virus so you can
get it anywhere.


And

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Sure.

"If a woman has her first episode of genital herpes while she is

pregnant,

she can pass the virus to her unborn child and may deliver a

premature baby.

Half of the babies infected with herpes either die or suffer from

damage to

their nerves. A baby born with herpes can develop serious problems

that may

affect the brain, the skin, or the eyes. If babies born with herpes

are

treated immediately with acyclovir, their chances of being healthy

are

increased."

Mark is thinking with his little brain again. His big one is only used
for hats.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm
So, not only would he be risking his son's health, but he'd be

killing his

own grandchildren, too!
Mark??? Is this what you want? Kill your grandchildren

grandpappy should have thrown you down the well


or severely

Post by m***@yahoo.com
disable

them by buying your son a prostitute for his 16th birthday?
What an unbelievably irresponsible thing to do!

Yup. Whatever made you think a man who buys a wife can be
"responsible"?

Jealous that he dated and married a quality woman?

[Mark Sobolewski]

From South Park:

"You see, chidren, sometimes a man needs to be with a woman.
But sometimes, when the lovin' is over,
the woman just wants to talk and talk and talk and talk.
[begins singing]

But a prostitute is someonen who would love you
No matter who you are,
or what you look like.
Yes, it's true, children.
That's not why you pay a prostitute,
no, you don't pay her to stay,
you pay her to leave afterwards.
That's why I pays a lot for prostitutes!
Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. James Taylor!
James Taylor: A prostitute is like any other woman
They all trade somethin' for sex and they do it well.
And that's why I say-
Prostitutes! Prostitutes!"

Post by Heidi Graw

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a

brothel! Not

in this day and age or any other!

Mark doesn't know the meaning of love, Heidi.
You have no idea just what sort of disease the prostitute has. She
could be HIV positive! And just think of all the other low-lifes
who've had their disease infested pricks poking around in her. YUK!!!
Well, Mark has also forgotten, that there is another parent (the mom)
who may indeed have something to say about her son's safety. And,
she's more than likely to be divorced with sole custody.

For women who share your priorities on "love", that's
certainly true. And children in single mother households
are more likely to be abused or wind up in prison than those
with the biological father present.

Post by Heidi Graw

Instead of buying him a pass at some filth, it would be much safer

if you

bought him a ticket to bungee jump or fall out of an airplane

clinging to a

trained and fully qualified parachutists. I'll bet he'd find either

of

those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some

strange

woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

He's also putting down his son's ability to get laid without paying for
it;

Movie stars such as Charlie Sheen and Jack Nicholson pay
thousands of dollars for prostitutes.

Men, especially powerful men, enjoy submissive women and
prostitutes are submissive. He doesn't have to have
an "ability" to get a woman in bed. She's already there.

This paradigm is incredibly liberating almost like taking
LSD. It's an incredible head trip.

Post by Heidi Graw
I guess Mark is just trying to live thru his non-existent son, and
realizing that he, Mark, had to pay every time.

Then I'm in the same boat as 99% of other men. It's nothing
to be ashamed of. Even if the sex is "free", there are hidden
costs such as emotional attachments and complications.

If a son is having problems getting laid, what's your
response? To regard him as a loser and call him a bitterboy?

Post by Heidi Graw
His would-be son may
have much more to offer a woman than Mark ever had, and I'm not really
speaking of material things.

But that's ALL you ever talk about as valuable to you.
At least the prostitute doesn't waste the john's time
by pretending that money doesn't matter to her.

Post by Heidi Graw

Don't do it! Really! Far better to just let your son find himself a

nice

girlfriend who hasn't been around the block too many times and let

him do

this when *he* feels ready for sex....not when *you* think it's time!

Well, arrogant fathers who do this sort of thing are not loved or
admired by their sons; they may be feared, tho. I suspect that's how
Mark wants to live his life, ie. by controlling others because he
cannot control himself. It makes him feel a bit 'taller' in the
saddle.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! A father may take his
son out for a great time at a brothel! :-)

As I said in a previous post, I never had any problems
with beautiful women about physical appearance including
height. It was always the plain janes who seemed as if
they had something to prove to other women by the
type of man they had on their arm or how large their
diamonds were. Also, tall confident men have NEVER said
anything either. They generally were actually very
chivalrous and helped those around them including
the handicapped.

So perhaps the phrase "napolean complex" applies best to
mediocre people who seek to project that label upon
others.

Post by Heidi Graw

I think I've had sufficiently strong discussions with my own sons

that I'm

pretty sure they will never ever use a prostitute no matter how

desperate

they are. Better to just masturbate.

Sex is certainly only one part of life. When a person makes that part
the part that controls, they might make choices that harm or end the
other parts of life. Yes, I concur with your advice. And, young men
without the need to control others can indeed control themselves.

The point of the young man seeing a prostitute is precisely
to establish a feeling of control AND why you find
the choice so repugnant.

Post by Heidi Graw

...and if you choose to have sex, wear a condom! Never leave home

without

one! ;-)

Yup.

Actually, I don't bother with condoms. One of the nice
things about a traditional marriage.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Movie stars such as Charlie Sheen and Jack Nicholson pay
thousands of dollars for prostitutes.
Men, especially powerful men, enjoy submissive women and
prostitutes are submissive. He doesn't have to have
an "ability" to get a woman in bed. She's already there.

Let me give you a snapshot of what occurs on the streets of Commercial and
Hastings St., Vancouver. My husband's worksite used to be in that area,
located on Franklin St. He'd arrive to work at 5:30 a.m. in the morning and
trip over the stoned out of their minds hookers and the homeless hanging
around the warm air vents of the building. From the maintenance shop, he
could watch the hookers ply their trade. Some scummy bum would solicite the
prostitute. She'd be gone with him for about half an hour before she'd
return to her regular spot. Then a Mercedies and/or BMW would pull up.
Another guy in the vehicle would solicite her services. She'd hop into that
car and begone. Now, within that half hour that she had been with some
scuzzy guy, she would not have had time to clean herself up or to douche in
readiness for the next customer. That more well off guy gets to fuck the
very same cunt that the scuzzy guy fucked just a short time earlier!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Then I'm in the same boat as 99% of other men.

So, you're admitting you have a scuzzy diseased infested penis that no
self-respecting American girl would fuck. I can understand now how you were
forced to import a foreign bride.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
It's nothing
to be ashamed of.

At least you were honest with your disclosure about your sexual activity.
Were you also as forthright with any American girl that you had tried to
date?

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Actually, I don't bother with condoms. One of the nice
things about a traditional marriage.

I see...So, you passed along your herpes to your virgin wife. Nice going,
Mark! Glad to hear you're out of the general sex market. You're a danger
to other women's health!

Heidi

[Mark Sobolewski]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Movie stars such as Charlie Sheen and Jack Nicholson pay
thousands of dollars for prostitutes.
Men, especially powerful men, enjoy submissive women and
prostitutes are submissive. He doesn't have to have
an "ability" to get a woman in bed. She's already there.

Let me give you a snapshot of what occurs on the streets of Commercial and
Hastings St., Vancouver. My husband's worksite used to be in that area,
located on Franklin St. He'd arrive to work at 5:30 a.m. in the morning and
trip over the stoned out of their minds hookers and the homeless hanging
around the warm air vents of the building. From the maintenance shop, he
could watch the hookers ply their trade. Some scummy bum would solicite the
prostitute. She'd be gone with him for about half an hour before she'd
return to her regular spot. Then a Mercedies and/or BMW would pull up.
Another guy in the vehicle would solicite her services. She'd hop into that
car and begone. Now, within that half hour that she had been with some
scuzzy guy, she would not have had time to clean herself up or to douche in
readiness for the next customer. That more well off guy gets to fuck the
very same cunt that the scuzzy guy fucked just a short time earlier!

In the Northern Virginia and LA area, there are discreet brothels
that offer women who aren't "stoned out of their minds" and
lying in the streets. When alcohol was illegal in the states,
the only openly visible signs of alcohol consumption were
winos in the streets too. Speakeasys were, by definition,
discreet. Are you similar to winos when you have a sip
of wine or a bottle of beer?

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Then I'm in the same boat as 99% of other men.

So, you're admitting you have a scuzzy diseased infested penis that no
self-respecting American girl would fuck. I can understand now how you were
forced to import a foreign bride.

There's a simple answer to that: I've been checked out
by three different doctors and all tests have come up clean.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
It's nothing
to be ashamed of.

At least you were honest with your disclosure about your sexual activity.
Were you also as forthright with any American girl that you had tried to
date?

Certainly.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Actually, I don't bother with condoms. One of the nice
things about a traditional marriage.

I see...So, you passed along your herpes to your virgin wife. Nice going,
Mark! Glad to hear you're out of the general sex market. You're a danger
to other women's health!

?!?! It's very dishonest of you to state I have a venerial
disease when I've been clear that I do not.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[GL Fowler]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:35:02 -0400, Mark Sobolewski

Post by Mark Sobolewski

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Movie stars such as Charlie Sheen and Jack Nicholson pay
thousands of dollars for prostitutes.
Men, especially powerful men, enjoy submissive women and
prostitutes are submissive. He doesn't have to have
an "ability" to get a woman in bed. She's already there.

Let me give you a snapshot of what occurs on the streets of Commercial and
Hastings St., Vancouver. My husband's worksite used to be in that area,
located on Franklin St. He'd arrive to work at 5:30 a.m. in the morning and
trip over the stoned out of their minds hookers and the homeless hanging
around the warm air vents of the building. From the maintenance shop, he
could watch the hookers ply their trade. Some scummy bum would solicite the
prostitute. She'd be gone with him for about half an hour before she'd
return to her regular spot. Then a Mercedies and/or BMW would pull up.
Another guy in the vehicle would solicite her services. She'd hop into that
car and begone. Now, within that half hour that she had been with some
scuzzy guy, she would not have had time to clean herself up or to douche in
readiness for the next customer. That more well off guy gets to fuck the
very same cunt that the scuzzy guy fucked just a short time earlier!

In the Northern Virginia and LA area, there are discreet brothels
that offer women who aren't "stoned out of their minds" and
lying in the streets. When alcohol was illegal in the states,
the only openly visible signs of alcohol consumption were
winos in the streets too. Speakeasys were, by definition,
discreet. Are you similar to winos when you have a sip
of wine or a bottle of beer?

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Then I'm in the same boat as 99% of other men.

So, you're admitting you have a scuzzy diseased infested penis that no
self-respecting American girl would fuck. I can understand now how you were
forced to import a foreign bride.

There's a simple answer to that: I've been checked out
by three different doctors and all tests have come up clean.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
It's nothing
to be ashamed of.

At least you were honest with your disclosure about your sexual activity.
Were you also as forthright with any American girl that you had tried to
date?

Certainly.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Actually, I don't bother with condoms. One of the nice
things about a traditional marriage.

I see...So, you passed along your herpes to your virgin wife. Nice going,
Mark! Glad to hear you're out of the general sex market. You're a danger
to other women's health!

?!?! It's very dishonest of you to state I have a venerial
disease when I've been clear that I do not.
regards,
Mark Sobolewski

It's nice to note that Heidi has finally resorted to invective name
calling on non participants to win her argument with you. Feminist
foot stomping and whining were of no avail so her true colors now come
out. It appears she will be a long term occupant to a number of kill
files.


"The best proof of intelligent life in space is that it hasn't come here."
- Sir Arthur C. Clarke

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
There's a simple answer to that: I've been checked out
by three different doctors and all tests have come up clean.

Mark, you could not scrub yourself clean enough to get rid of the crud left
behind from all those hundreds of men who made use of the prostitutes you
bought for your own use.

Your sexual disclosure cast you in a completely different light from my own
point of view. Up 'til now, I actually held you to some level worthy of
respect. I thought you charming, funny, albeit sexist, but no big deal.

However, now that I know you were into using several or more prostitutes, I
can't help but think of all the scuzzy cruddy men these women had noodling
them...and *you* were one of her many clients! You are as tainted as the
crud she screwed!

Any respect I had for you has plummeted...dramatically...all I can think of
is that I'm conversing with "filth."

Oh well...be glad you did find a wife who wasn't so concerned about your
sexual history. I, for one, would not have been quite so forgiving. I'm
also exceedingly thankful that my husband believes sex with prostitutes is
disgusting! As my hubby sometimes claims about women he finds filthy or
exceedingly ugly or fat, "I wouldn't fuck her using someone else's cock!"

Heidi

[m***@yahoo.com]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
There's a simple answer to that: I've been checked out
by three different doctors and all tests have come up clean.

Mark, you could not scrub yourself clean enough to get rid of the crud left
behind from all those hundreds of men who made use of the prostitutes you
bought for your own use.

You make it sound so tawdry. :-)

As you have pointed out, men who used prostitutes and later slept
with their girlfriends effectively have the girlfriends sleeping
with that prostitutes' clients. So unless you and your hubby
were virgins on your wedding night, it's quite possible that
you've "slept" with the same people I have.

You sound like Howard Hughes scrubbing every single thing
with alcohol and wearing white gloves. We live in a world
of microbes. I'm reminded of how my swiss friend is always
sick when she comes back from a trip to Switzerland. Poles
say that Switzerland is too damn clean and weakens
the immune system. It's amazing. I have NEVER seen a piece
of litter outside of Zurich! Anyway, back to the subject:

I suspect that your revulsion with germs is merely a way of
you expressing you distaste for the practice of prostitution
in general. You said your husband is "offended" by them
and now you emphasize I "bought" these women. Is your husband
"bought" by his employer? You also express a sheer distaste
for me below. I've hit a nerve and I'm not making this
observation to be unnecessarily spiteful. Others have picked
up on your emotional reaction too. It's rather queer
coming from someone who claims to be so modern.

I've heard psuedo-modern women express sentiments similar to
yours about how they found prostitution distasteful EVEN AS
they RELIGIOUSLY engaged in a form of pseudo-prostitution by
demanding that men pay for every sexual encounter through
a form of barter. Maybe there's something Freudian behind
all of this animosity expressed towards prostitution by women
practicing it themselves. A form of self-hate perhaps?
(Note: This isn't directed at you. You may have some other
hangup on this issue. Note: Don't take the term "hangup"
in the wrong way. :-)

Your sexual disclosure cast you in a completely different light from my own
point of view. Up 'til now, I actually held you to some level worthy of
respect. I thought you charming, funny, albeit sexist, but no big deal.
However, now that I know you were into using several or more

prostitutes, I

can't help but think of all the scuzzy cruddy men these women had noodling
them...and *you* were one of her many clients! You are as tainted as the
crud she screwed!

Maybe you should wear gloves while typing your responses to me. :-)

While you find sexually experienced women disgusting, I happen
to think many of them had personal charm and pragmatic attitudes
about men. I might even say they need a gentleman to defend
them as ladies. You're casting stones at them, indirectly,
through implying that they're "used" by men and they are
tainted by their sexual experience. Shame on YOU!
You claim to be sexually liberated but you give the impression
that you are hiding behind sexual repression.

There are men out there who are "sluts" and have slept with hundreds
of women. Are the women who sleep with these men viewed as filthy?
Oh, wait, these men are "studs" because it's understood that only
exceptional men can accomplish that feat while prostitutes
are just ordinary women selling sex to make a living.

Not only that, but your attitude is elitist. You argue that
I'm filthy because I'm indirectly intimate, literally,
with the common man you refer to as "crud". Apart from
"crack whores", professional prostitutes are aware of
health risks and want to avoid high risk clients. There's
already plenty of money to be made from working men
such as myself. Why would they take unnecessary risks?
And what makes you think that no "normal" women sleep with
"crud"? See the "studs" above!

Any respect I had for you has plummeted...dramatically...all I can think of
is that I'm conversing with "filth."

Unclean! Unclean! :-)

Hmmm, I thought about this and I realize why your reaction
may be so acerbic: I'm not "scum" that you imagine are a
prostitute's only clients. I'm like many "normal" men
you know with normal girlfriends who are in your sexual
swimming pool and maybe that scares you.

Ordinarily, I would chuckle at your reaction but I thought
further: I'm doing what I like with my body and I'm ok.
Who are you to judge? Are you pro-choice? You think it's
ok for women to go and get unborn babies scraped out
of them when it suits them and hey, if men don't like that,
tough darts, right? But here I am, a man doing what I like
with my body and you're having problems handling that in
a simple internet discussion! But I'm as much a product
of modern sexual mores as anything else.
Everything else is liberalizing. If gambling, gay marriage,
and beastility are becoming accepted surely the oldest
profession can find room in our society in the future.

Oh well...be glad you did find a wife who wasn't so concerned about your
sexual history.

My wife didn't discuss my sexual history and vice-versa.
We were more concerned about the present and I got myself
checked out as did she so we didn't bring any "dirty laundry"
into the marriage.

I, for one, would not have been quite so forgiving. I'm
also exceedingly thankful that my husband believes sex with

prostitutes is

disgusting!

I'm glad for you to have someone whose compatable with you.
I also am happy to share my wife's sentiments on many matters
so it gives us this warm, fuzzy feeling. But I'm liberal
enough (strange to use that word) to be tolerant of my
wife's, and your, opposing views and be civilized.
Maybe I'm getting more mature (old) and know how to
react proportionately. For example, if your husband
never solicited a prostitute but saw nothing wrong with
the practice, you'd still be germ free!

As my hubby sometimes claims about women he finds filthy or
exceedingly ugly or fat, "I wouldn't fuck her using someone else's cock!"

I can appreciate that remark when discussing someone whose filthy
(since that person has some control over their general hygene)
but saying it about someone whose ugly or fat comes across
as incredibly cruel and vulgar, don't you think? Does he
need to say that?

Ok, in all fairness, my wife said that Fantasia of American
Idol should have gone on The Swan and I agree with her. :-)

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
As you have pointed out, men who used prostitutes and later slept
with their girlfriends effectively have the girlfriends sleeping
with that prostitutes' clients. So unless you and your hubby
were virgins on your wedding night, it's quite possible that
you've "slept" with the same people I have.

Highly unlikely! Hubby never made use of prostitutes! What he saw as a
teen and young man wandering around the streets of Vancouver and seeing the
prostitute's clientele was enough to turn him *off* any such notions!

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You sound like Howard Hughes scrubbing every single thing
with alcohol and wearing white gloves.

There is dirt and there is dirt. To what extent the dirt? I once asked my
husband what he thought of group sex (one woman to any number of men). His
response: "Only if he could be the *first* in line!" ;-)

Somehow this idea that he was to ejaculate into a cunt that already had
someone else's semen in it he thought rather obsene and disgusting. I could
certainly understand his aversion. Yet, it seems to me there are enough men
around who don't mind sharing their semen with one another by stirring it up
within the same "pot." You sound like you're one of those types.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
We live in a world
of microbes.

I know. There are beneficial microbes as well as destructive ones. Some
bacteria are beneficial, others not.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I suspect that your revulsion with germs is merely a way of
you expressing you distaste for the practice of prostitution
in general.

Yep. The pimps, the kidnapping of vulnerable women, the abuse, the drugs,
the spreading of disease. Btw, I have to include those young men who, too,
are often exploited. I have no respect for women who buy the services of
male prostitutes.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You said your husband is "offended" by them
and now you emphasize I "bought" these women. Is your husband
"bought" by his employer?

He doesn't have sex with his employer!

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You also express a sheer distaste
for me below.

Yes, because you appear to support exploitive and harmful practises.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I've hit a nerve and I'm not making this
observation to be unnecessarily spiteful.
Others have picked
up on your emotional reaction too. It's rather queer
coming from someone who claims to be so modern.

I'm one of those who likes to look at "cause and effect" issues. If I find
a certain practise is extremely harmful, I have this natural tendency to be
repulsed by that.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I've heard psuedo-modern women express sentiments similar to
yours about how they found prostitution distasteful EVEN AS
they RELIGIOUSLY engaged in a form of pseudo-prostitution by
demanding that men pay for every sexual encounter through
a form of barter.

This is certainly not something *I* believe in. I've never been one to
trade a meal for sex. I've always traded one meal for another. ;-) For
example, I learned long ago that bachelors tend to appreciate a homecooked
meal. So, if a bachelor treated me out to a restaurant, I returned that
favor with a homecooked meal which tasted even better than that restaurant
faire! I bought the groceries and put in the effort and paid for the
electric and gas bill. Did those bachelors appreciate it? Absolutely! Not
one of them complained that I didn't treat them out to a restaurant meal.
They've had enough of those and were tired of it! Those homecooked meals
were a goddess-sent! ;-)

As for any sexual activity? Hmmm...that tended to be weighted against what
sort of person they were and whether or not I found them likable. Did
something about them turn me on? Did I find them sexy? What was it that I
found sexy? Do you want to know what I found sexy? The arrangement and
shape of their teeth! Can there be anything more stranger than that? ;-)
The guy could have a rather homely face, but if he had sexy teeth, I'd kiss
him! LOL.... ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Maybe there's something Freudian behind
all of this

...what did Freud have to say about a woman's fascination with a man's
teeth? ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Maybe you should wear gloves while typing your responses to me. :-)

I was thinking about it! ;-)

But really, Mark...this is going to take me some time to disassociate you
from my vivid imagination of you making use of a semen encrusted
"receptical".

Post by m***@yahoo.com
While you find sexually experienced women disgusting, I happen
to think many of them had personal charm and pragmatic attitudes
about men.

I suppose that prostitute learned that men don't particularly care whether
or not remnants of her previous clientele remain inside her vagina and form
that crust around the edges. If you prefer that crusty layer on the outside
and that slimey pre-lubricated feeling on the inside...well...that's your
choice! But just stay the hell away from me! ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Unclean! Unclean! :-)

Yup...

Heidi

[m***@yahoo.com]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
As you have pointed out, men who used prostitutes and later slept
with their girlfriends effectively have the girlfriends sleeping
with that prostitutes' clients. So unless you and your hubby
were virgins on your wedding night, it's quite possible that
you've "slept" with the same people I have.

Highly unlikely! Hubby never made use of prostitutes! What he saw as a
teen and young man wandering around the streets of Vancouver and seeing the
prostitute's clientele was enough to turn him *off* any such notions!

No. I meant that your hubby or yourself could have bedded someone who
had bedded someone else who bought a prostitute.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You sound like Howard Hughes scrubbing every single thing
with alcohol and wearing white gloves.

There is dirt and there is dirt. To what extent the dirt? I once asked my
husband what he thought of group sex (one woman to any number of men). His
response: "Only if he could be the *first* in line!" ;-)
Somehow this idea that he was to ejaculate into a cunt that already had
someone else's semen in it he thought rather obsene and disgusting.

What if they all used condoms?

I could
certainly understand his aversion. Yet, it seems to me there are enough men
around who don't mind sharing their semen with one another by

stirring it up

within the same "pot." You sound like you're one of those types.

I used condoms.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
We live in a world
of microbes.

I know. There are beneficial microbes as well as destructive ones.

Some

bacteria are beneficial, others not.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I suspect that your revulsion with germs is merely a way of
you expressing you distaste for the practice of prostitution
in general.

Yep. The pimps, the kidnapping of vulnerable women, the abuse, the drugs,
the spreading of disease.

This all applies mostly to where prostitution is illegal or
streetwalkers. You might as well argue that alcohol is
bad based upon behaviour of users during prohibition.

Btw, I have to include those young men who, too,
are often exploited. I have no respect for women who buy the

services of

male prostitutes.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You said your husband is "offended" by them
and now you emphasize I "bought" these women. Is your husband
"bought" by his employer?

He doesn't have sex with his employer!

Post by m***@yahoo.com
You also express a sheer distaste
for me below.

Yes, because you appear to support exploitive and harmful practises.

Do you ever buy clothing made in China? Stir sugar into tea?
Many industries engage in exploitive or harmful practices.
The best way to address these problems are regulation, not
prohibition.

For example: I think the US ought to slap an import duty
of 50% on goods made with slave labor.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I've hit a nerve and I'm not making this
observation to be unnecessarily spiteful.
Others have picked
up on your emotional reaction too. It's rather queer
coming from someone who claims to be so modern.

I'm one of those who likes to look at "cause and effect" issues. If I find
a certain practise is extremely harmful, I have this natural tendency to be
repulsed by that.

Er... and feminism isn't a female centric philosophy that often
degenerates into hedonism and man-hating?

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I've heard psuedo-modern women express sentiments similar to
yours about how they found prostitution distasteful EVEN AS
they RELIGIOUSLY engaged in a form of pseudo-prostitution by
demanding that men pay for every sexual encounter through
a form of barter.

This is certainly not something *I* believe in.

Ok. Yeah yeah yeah. But 99.99% of other women out there DO.

I've never been one to
trade a meal for sex. I've always traded one meal for another. ;-)

For

example, I learned long ago that bachelors tend to appreciate a homecooked
meal. So, if a bachelor treated me out to a restaurant, I returned that
favor with a homecooked meal which tasted even better than that restaurant
faire! I bought the groceries and put in the effort and paid for the
electric and gas bill. Did those bachelors appreciate it?

Absolutely! Not

one of them complained that I didn't treat them out to a restaurant meal.
They've had enough of those and were tired of it! Those homecooked meals
were a goddess-sent! ;-)

I think this is great PROVIDED the young women take the initiative
at the end of the date to say she'll be doing this for him so
him picking up the check won't appear to be throwing money
into a well and hoping for something to come back.

As for any sexual activity? Hmmm...that tended to be weighted

against what

sort of person they were and whether or not I found them likable.

Did

something about them turn me on? Did I find them sexy? What was it that I
found sexy? Do you want to know what I found sexy? The arrangement and
shape of their teeth! Can there be anything more stranger than that?

;-)

The guy could have a rather homely face, but if he had sexy teeth, I'd kiss
him! LOL.... ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Maybe there's something Freudian behind
all of this

...what did Freud have to say about a woman's fascination with a man's
teeth? ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Maybe you should wear gloves while typing your responses to me. :-)

I was thinking about it! ;-)
But really, Mark...this is going to take me some time to disassociate you
from my vivid imagination of you making use of a semen encrusted
"receptical".

The women strictly used condoms and wouldn't even engage in
fellatio without a condom. In some ways, it depersonalized
the whole experience but in others obviously it does help
to know that I had some protection.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
While you find sexually experienced women disgusting, I happen
to think many of them had personal charm and pragmatic attitudes
about men.

I suppose that prostitute learned that men don't particularly care whether
or not remnants of her previous clientele remain inside her vagina and form
that crust around the edges. If you prefer that crusty layer on the outside
and that slimey pre-lubricated feeling on the inside...well...that's your
choice! But just stay the hell away from me! ;-)

See above.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Unclean! Unclean! :-)

Yup...
Heidi

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[a***@yahoo.com]

Post by Heidi Graw
However, now that I know you were into using several or more

prostitutes, I

Post by Heidi Graw
can't help but think of all the scuzzy cruddy men these women had noodling
them...and *you* were one of her many clients! You are as tainted as the
crud she screwed!

I take it that you never put out after a dinner and a movie or never
had premarital sex?

Post by Heidi Graw
Heidi

Regards...

[Viper]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Movie stars such as Charlie Sheen and Jack Nicholson pay
thousands of dollars for prostitutes.
Men, especially powerful men, enjoy submissive women and
prostitutes are submissive. He doesn't have to have
an "ability" to get a woman in bed. She's already there.

Let me give you a snapshot of what occurs on the streets of Commercial and
Hastings St., Vancouver. My husband's worksite used to be in that area,
located on Franklin St. He'd arrive to work at 5:30 a.m. in the morning and
trip over the stoned out of their minds hookers and the homeless hanging
around the warm air vents of the building. From the maintenance shop, he
could watch the hookers ply their trade. Some scummy bum would solicite the
prostitute. She'd be gone with him for about half an hour before she'd
return to her regular spot. Then a Mercedies and/or BMW would pull up.
Another guy in the vehicle would solicite her services. She'd hop into that
car and begone. Now, within that half hour that she had been with some
scuzzy guy, she would not have had time to clean herself up or to douche in
readiness for the next customer. That more well off guy gets to fuck the
very same cunt that the scuzzy guy fucked just a short time earlier!

At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed brothels in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license (Yes, there
are hooker permits there.) In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go for a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a quickie.

That doesn't sound anything like the dismal picture you just painted..

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by Viper
At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed brothels in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license (Yes, there
are hooker permits there.)

...and at any time within those 90 days the girls could have caught a
disease and passed it onto hundreds of men.

Post by Viper
In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go for a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a quickie.

Nevada is just one State. In Hamburg Germany they have the Reeperbahn.
This is an enclosed neighbourhood filled with brothels, bars and theatres.
Very pricy and also well-regulated, supervised, etc. However, congregating
around this Reeperbahn and extending for several blocks adjacent to the
Reeperbahn are illegal brothels which are cheaper and which many men choose
as that more affordable alternative option. These are breeding grounds for
disease.

It wouldn't be so bad if the men who use prostitutes *remain* using them for
their entire lifetimes. This would at least limit the spread of disease
infecting non-prostitutes. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the
most part men who use prostitutes will still fuck their wives and/or
girlfriends, thus spreading the disease even further.

Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This would at least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with Mark. Had I
come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into prostitutes, I would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or buts about
it. It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man knowing his
dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.

Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

Heidi

[Avenger]

(snip)

Post by Viper
At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed brothels in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license (Yes, there
are hooker permits there.)

...and at any time within those 90 days the girls could have caught a
disease and passed it onto hundreds of men.

Post by Viper
In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go

for

Post by Viper
a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a quickie.

Nevada is just one State. In Hamburg Germany they have the Reeperbahn.
This is an enclosed neighbourhood filled with brothels, bars and theatres.
Very pricy and also well-regulated, supervised, etc. However,

congregating

around this Reeperbahn and extending for several blocks adjacent to the
Reeperbahn are illegal brothels which are cheaper and which many men choose
as that more affordable alternative option. These are breeding grounds for
disease.
It wouldn't be so bad if the men who use prostitutes *remain* using them for
their entire lifetimes.

That's called marriage.


This would at least limit the spread of disease

infecting non-prostitutes. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the
most part men who use prostitutes will still fuck their wives and/or
girlfriends, thus spreading the disease even further.

I don't know if that's true. Any guy who can get a girlfriend or wife can
certainly get another. So he might be married and fucking another girl but
why would he pay a whore?

Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This would at least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with Mark.

The risk is very low.

Had I

come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into prostitutes, I would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or buts about
it.

That's just because you want all of his money for yourself and you're afraid
he'd be comparing you to the whore.


It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man knowing his

dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.
Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

Yes, I've done that with females and was shocked!

Heidi

[Mark Sobolewski]

(snip)

Post by Viper
At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed brothels in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license (Yes, there
are hooker permits there.)

...and at any time within those 90 days the girls could have caught a
disease and passed it onto hundreds of men.

Post by Viper
In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go for a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a quickie.

Nevada is just one State. In Hamburg Germany they have the Reeperbahn.
This is an enclosed neighbourhood filled with brothels, bars and theatres.
Very pricy and also well-regulated, supervised, etc. However, congregating
around this Reeperbahn and extending for several blocks adjacent to the
Reeperbahn are illegal brothels which are cheaper and which many men choose
as that more affordable alternative option. These are breeding grounds for
disease.
It wouldn't be so bad if the men who use prostitutes *remain* using them for
their entire lifetimes. This would at least limit the spread of disease
infecting non-prostitutes. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the
most part men who use prostitutes will still fuck their wives and/or
girlfriends, thus spreading the disease even further.
Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This would at least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with Mark. Had I
come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into prostitutes, I would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or buts about
it. It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man knowing his
dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.

All the more reason to lie to you, my pretty! :-)

One of the things I learned, I'm proud to say, reasonably quickly
in life was that intolerance creates an environment that breeds
(pardon the pun) deceit.

Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)
Heidi

Lessee: You're so paranoid about disease that you believe a product
that's supposed to protect your sons (and yourself) from VD
diseases of "normal" women will result in all men who have
bedded a prostitute being infected.

Yet, at the same time, you believe that all men are honest with you
after a few drinks.

When most men go out on dates, they drink and act as if they
pay for a woman's company because they enjoy being
a "gentlemen". Apparently, men do know how to put on a magic
show.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This would at least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with Mark. Had I
come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into prostitutes, I would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or buts about
it. It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man knowing his
dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.

All the more reason to lie to you, my pretty! :-)

...ah...but despite that handsome face spouting those beguiling words, the
truth has a way of wriggling up to the surface sooner or later. ;-)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
One of the things I learned, I'm proud to say, reasonably quickly
in life was that intolerance creates an environment that breeds
(pardon the pun) deceit.

Yes, so you will allow that woman to decide whether or not to have sex with
you. Yet, at the same time, you get upset if she says, "No!"

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

Lessee: You're so paranoid about disease that you believe a product
that's supposed to protect your sons (and yourself) from VD
diseases of "normal" women will result in all men who have
bedded a prostitute being infected.

Yet, you have to admit the risks increase with the number of sexual partners
one has. That prostitute has hundreds of clients. The average *normal*
woman does not.

What cured any of the men at my husband's work of this notion of using
prostitutes was watching the continual line of clients that made use of her.
They actually noted the time between clients and concluded that there would
not have been any opportunity for her to clean up between customers. They
looked at the clientele and become revolted!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Yet, at the same time, you believe that all men are honest with you
after a few drinks.
When most men go out on dates, they drink and act as if they
pay for a woman's company because they enjoy being
a "gentlemen". Apparently, men do know how to put on a magic
show.

Yes, and that "magic show" is nothing but an illusion! Granted you may fool
some people some of the time. Eventually, however, they do catch on! ;-)

Heidi

[m***@yahoo.com]

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This

would at

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with

Mark.

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
Had I
come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into

prostitutes, I

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or

buts

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
about
it. It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man

knowing

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
his
dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.

All the more reason to lie to you, my pretty! :-)

...ah...but despite that handsome face spouting those beguiling words, the
truth has a way of wriggling up to the surface sooner or later. ;-)

Hello Heidi,

Men don't think of these situations in the long term. :-)

This brings to mind a discussion we had at lunchtime about the
runaway bride. Now THERE'S a man whose really in need of a reality
check: This woman is a nut but he still wants to marry her.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
One of the things I learned, I'm proud to say, reasonably quickly
in life was that intolerance creates an environment that breeds
(pardon the pun) deceit.

Yes, so you will allow that woman to decide whether or not to have sex with
you. Yet, at the same time, you get upset if she says, "No!"

That's not what I said. Of course, I get upset if someone says
"No!" That's human. No is generally not a word humans enjoy hearing
especially with an exclamation mark at the end. As it turns out,
women usually handle rejection far more poorly than men.
After a few

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can

guard

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Post by Heidi Graw
their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

Lessee: You're so paranoid about disease that you believe a product
that's supposed to protect your sons (and yourself) from VD
diseases of "normal" women will result in all men who have
bedded a prostitute being infected.

Yet, you have to admit the risks increase with the number of sexual partners
one has. That prostitute has hundreds of clients. The average *normal*
woman does not.

That prostitute also may be more careful and "professional" than a
*normal* woman doing it in the back of a buick. Also, a man has
just as much chance of catching VD from a diseased normal
woman as he does from a diseased prostitute.

What cured any of the men at my husband's work of this notion of using
prostitutes was watching the continual line of clients that made use of her.
They actually noted the time between clients and concluded that there would
not have been any opportunity for her to clean up between customers.

They

looked at the clientele and become revolted!

Have you ever looked at what goes on in the kitchen in restaurants? :-)

Streetwalkers especially in NA are the lowest grade of prostitute.
I find them repulsive as well.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Yet, at the same time, you believe that all men are honest with you
after a few drinks.
When most men go out on dates, they drink and act as if they
pay for a woman's company because they enjoy being
a "gentlemen". Apparently, men do know how to put on a magic
show.

Yes, and that "magic show" is nothing but an illusion! Granted you may fool
some people some of the time. Eventually, however, they do catch on!

;-)

Heidi

The question is whether they want to catch on. :-)

If a man is attractive and saying what a woman wants to hear, she's
not going to look the horse so close in the mouth than if someone,
say, like me was saying it. :-)

Think about this: Despite 30 years of radical progressive feminism,
millions of women continue to bear the bastard babies of
deadbeats and date and marry physically abusive men.

From that evidence, are men really the self-deluding sex?

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
All the more reason to lie to you, my pretty! :-)

...ah...but despite that handsome face spouting those beguiling
words, the truth has a way of wriggling up to the surface sooner or later.
;-)

Hello Heidi,
Men don't think of these situations in the long term. :-)

They can be taught! ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
This brings to mind a discussion we had at lunchtime about the
runaway bride. Now THERE'S a man whose really in need of a reality
check: This woman is a nut but he still wants to marry her.

Agreed!

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Of course, I get upset if someone says
"No!" That's human. No is generally not a word humans enjoy hearing
especially with an exclamation mark at the end. As it turns out,
women usually handle rejection far more poorly than men.

There are those who refuse to take "No" for an answer and for some reason
that is applauded. You are to persist until you get that "Yes!"

Usually what happens is that the party wanting that "yes" is so attached to
that thing, person or concept that they will continue to pester the party
who said "no." I personally have no problem accepting a "No." I might ask a
second time just to make sure that "no" really is a "no."

If I get that firm "No!" I just move on to alternatives that would allow me
to achieve that what I wanted to achieve. I don't waste my time trying to
convince, cajole, bribe or otherwise arm twist to get that "Yes" for that
particular thing, person or idea. When I receive that "no." I don't worry
about it! I can respect that "No!"

I just say, "Fine! No problem! There are other ways, other means, other
people from whom I can get that "Yes!" This usually p*sses off that
nay-sayer 'cause they tend to think by saying "no" to me that they've
somehow won, or that the "no" somehow hurt my feelyuns...or that "no" was a
way they could exert control over me. I simply refuse to allow that to
happen! :-)

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by Heidi Graw
Yet, you have to admit the risks increase with the number of sexual
partners one has. That prostitute has hundreds of clients. The average
*normal* woman does not.

That prostitute also may be more careful and "professional"

Key word *may!* I used to think like you about prostitution. What harm is
there if voluntarily entered into and cleansiness is adhered to, and that
the prostitute is not stoned out of her mind?

But, I changed my mind about that a few years ago. AIDS was one of the
reasons. Also Russia's transition period moving from Communism to
Capitalism and the economic upheaval that occured in which impoverished
Russian, Ukrainian and other Eastern Block women were preyed upon (and still
are) by unscrupulous men involved in prostitution syndicates and human
trafficking! The current Chinese and Indian imbalance between the sexes is
also creating a situation where women are kidnapped and sold into the sex
trade!

I also had to rethink my position when I learned that legal bordellos
attract illegal operations offering cheaper alternatives. Locally, nice
little Christian girls who were taught to obey and trust men ended up lured
and kidnapped by pimps to end up working the sex trade! The abuses are so
huge, so incredibly difficult to squash and/or manage, that I have no
choice but to warn my boys *not to* use prostitutes. No-one can be sure
that the prostitute in that bordello is there *voluntarily* and that she
would not extract some way of vengeance by covering up a disease she may
have or to sabotage that condom that is supposed to be that barrier. The
*vast majority* of prostitutes are *not* voluntarily in that trade, plus the
conditions are horrible!

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Streetwalkers especially in NA are the lowest grade of prostitute.
I find them repulsive as well.

Brothels are no better, despite what their advertisings may claim!

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
If a man is attractive and saying what a woman wants to hear, she's
not going to look the horse so close in the mouth than if someone,
say, like me was saying it. :-)

LOL...

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Think about this: Despite 30 years of radical progressive feminism,
millions of women continue to bear the bastard babies of
deadbeats and date and marry physically abusive men.

Post by Heidi Graw
From that evidence, are men really the self-deluding sex?

I think *both* are prone to self-delusion. But how can they be otherwise if
their lives are filled with illusions heavily peppered with lies? We live
in a "virtual reality" world! What you see may not be! ;-)

Heidi

[m***@yahoo.com]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
All the more reason to lie to you, my pretty! :-)

...ah...but despite that handsome face spouting those beguiling
words, the truth has a way of wriggling up to the surface sooner or later.
;-)

Hello Heidi,
Men don't think of these situations in the long term. :-)

They can be taught! ;-)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
This brings to mind a discussion we had at lunchtime about the
runaway bride. Now THERE'S a man whose really in need of a reality
check: This woman is a nut but he still wants to marry her.

Agreed!
(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Of course, I get upset if someone says
"No!" That's human. No is generally not a word humans enjoy hearing
especially with an exclamation mark at the end. As it turns out,
women usually handle rejection far more poorly than men.

There are those who refuse to take "No" for an answer and for some reason
that is applauded. You are to persist until you get that "Yes!"
Usually what happens is that the party wanting that "yes" is so attached to
that thing, person or concept that they will continue to pester the party
who said "no." I personally have no problem accepting a "No." I might ask a
second time just to make sure that "no" really is a "no."

What I meant is that women usually don't risk rejection
and rarely ask at the initial relationship stage. It's hard to
argue that men can be "taught" when the teachers are largely
being passive and completely absorbed by their immediate concerns.

Even with my wife, I had to bite my tongue at times during
the initial courtship and beginning marital stages.
I love her, but women can drive us men nuts at times and if I
open my big mouth, I only make things worse. So I have
to bide my time and wait for an opportune moment to speak
my mind.

I had to learn all of this on my own and still try to
be a decent person and a survivor to boot. Try to keep
that in mind before you judge me as a mere sexist whoremonger!

If I get that firm "No!" I just move on to alternatives that would allow me
to achieve that what I wanted to achieve. I don't waste my time trying to
convince, cajole, bribe or otherwise arm twist to get that "Yes" for that
particular thing, person or idea. When I receive that "no." I don't worry
about it! I can respect that "No!"
I just say, "Fine! No problem! There are other ways, other means, other
people from whom I can get that "Yes!" This usually p*sses off that
nay-sayer 'cause they tend to think by saying "no" to me that they've
somehow won, or that the "no" somehow hurt my feelyuns...or that "no" was a
way they could exert control over me. I simply refuse to allow that to
happen! :-)

Er, I'll confess that there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said.
I've found the same thing as well. When I come across a power
hungry asshole, I've found that the smartest thing to do is
to make a quick evaluation: Can I convince this guy to change
his mind or not? If not, then I'm only going to encourage
this guy to build a brick wall if I argue with him. Otherwise,
be nice and let him think I've given up and go around him.

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by Heidi Graw
Yet, you have to admit the risks increase with the number of sexual
partners one has. That prostitute has hundreds of clients. The average
*normal* woman does not.

That prostitute also may be more careful and "professional"

Key word *may!* I used to think like you about prostitution. What harm is
there if voluntarily entered into and cleansiness is adhered to, and that
the prostitute is not stoned out of her mind?
But, I changed my mind about that a few years ago. AIDS was one of the
reasons. Also Russia's transition period moving from Communism to
Capitalism and the economic upheaval that occured in which

impoverished

Russian, Ukrainian and other Eastern Block women were preyed upon (and still
are) by unscrupulous men involved in prostitution syndicates and human
trafficking! The current Chinese and Indian imbalance between the sexes is
also creating a situation where women are kidnapped and sold into the sex
trade!

So what? Plenty of trades have unscrupulous people but we learn
to deal with them anyway. The textile industry in the states
employs illegal immigrants and pays them almost nothing
while earning markups of several thousand percent!!!

Look at marriage! That's one incredibly corrupt legal institution
with plenty of men's lives ruined but nobody seems to be
calling for an end to it much less reforming the laws and
legal practices.

In other words, pardon me if I don't buy into the notion that
prostitution is so bad because some women are suffering when
there's suffering in other trades as well.

On the contrary: Legal prostitution encourages better treatment
of sex workers.

I also had to rethink my position when I learned that legal bordellos
attract illegal operations offering cheaper alternatives.

This is total bunk!

An illegal bordello would cost more to run due to secrecy
and security costs and as you point out below, would
not offer customers the protection of health regulations.

Locally, nice
little Christian girls who were taught to obey and trust men ended up lured
and kidnapped by pimps to end up working the sex trade! The abuses are so
huge, so incredibly difficult to squash and/or manage, that I have no
choice but to warn my boys *not to* use prostitutes. No-one can be sure
that the prostitute in that bordello is there *voluntarily* and that she
would not extract some way of vengeance by covering up a disease she may
have or to sabotage that condom that is supposed to be that barrier.

If the place is legal, then checking up is as easy to making
a local phone call to the police and asking if they've inspected
the place and the health certificates of the women working there.

The
*vast majority* of prostitutes are *not* voluntarily in that trade, plus the
conditions are horrible!

In westernized countries where the professional is legal, I challenge
you to show me this occurs more often than labor violations
in other industries as I showed above. Russia, after all, is
rife with corruption and labor law violations anyway so that's
hardly a good example.

If anything, this argument shows that MORE regulation and
legalization is necessary rather than driving the trade
underground.

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Streetwalkers especially in NA are the lowest grade of prostitute.
I find them repulsive as well.

Brothels are no better, despite what their advertisings may claim!

I've talked to the women and some of them are students who
clearly know their studies and are making some extra money
or others are blue collar women who are happy to make
a salary that usually goes to doctors and engineers.

Some other women get into narcotics but this true of the
striptease trade as well. I think I have more credibility
to talk about the sex worker industry while you may
have looked only at the "advertisements" of the opponents.

America tried to outlaw a very dangerous substance once:
Alcohol. Look at how that worked!

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
If a man is attractive and saying what a woman wants to hear, she's
not going to look the horse so close in the mouth than if someone,
say, like me was saying it. :-)

LOL...

Post by m***@yahoo.com
Think about this: Despite 30 years of radical progressive feminism,
millions of women continue to bear the bastard babies of
deadbeats and date and marry physically abusive men.

Post by Heidi Graw
From that evidence, are men really the self-deluding sex?

I think *both* are prone to self-delusion. But how can they be otherwise if
their lives are filled with illusions heavily peppered with lies? We live
in a "virtual reality" world! What you see may not be! ;-)
Heidi

Agreed.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Lee]

Post by Heidi Graw
I find it extremely offensive and vile.

Too bad.

Post by Heidi Graw
Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

I am immune to female interrogation tactics.

Try dating someone who isn't manipulated.

[Avenger]

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed brothels in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license (Yes, there
are hooker permits there.)

...and at any time within those 90 days the girls could have caught a
disease and passed it onto hundreds of men.

Post by Viper
In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go

for

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a quickie.

Nevada is just one State. In Hamburg Germany they have the Reeperbahn.
This is an enclosed neighbourhood filled with brothels, bars and theatres.
Very pricy and also well-regulated, supervised, etc. However,

congregating

Post by Heidi Graw
around this Reeperbahn and extending for several blocks adjacent to the
Reeperbahn are illegal brothels which are cheaper and which many men choose
as that more affordable alternative option. These are breeding grounds for
disease.
It wouldn't be so bad if the men who use prostitutes *remain* using them for
their entire lifetimes.

That's called marriage.


This would at least limit the spread of disease

Post by Heidi Graw
infecting non-prostitutes. Unfortunately, this is not the case. For the
most part men who use prostitutes will still fuck their wives and/or
girlfriends, thus spreading the disease even further.

I don't know if that's true. Any guy who can get a girlfriend or wife can
certainly get another. So he might be married and fucking another girl but
why would he pay a whore?

Post by Heidi Graw
Well, in any case, as Mark had claimed, he was forthright about disclosing
his sexual activity to any girlfriends he may have had. This would at least
allow the women to choose whether to not to risk having sex with Mark.

The risk is very low.

Had I

Post by Heidi Graw
come across a man who disclosed to me that he was into prostitutes, I would
have dropped him *instantly* at that moment ...no ifs, ands, or buts about
it.

That's just because you want all of his money for yourself and you're afraid
he'd be comparing you to the whore.


It would have been impossible for me to have sex with a man knowing his

Post by Heidi Graw
dick had been in places where hundreds of other men had their dicks, too.
Eeeehhh...I find it extremely offensive and vile.
Finding out a man's sexual history is also not so difficult: After a few
drinks men tend to reveal all that is in their minds! Few can guard their
tongue while in a drunken stupor! ;-)

Yes, I've done that with females and was shocked!

[m***@yahoo.com]

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
At the Cherry Patch, and the Mustang Ranch, both state licensed

brothels

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
in
Nevada, there are 2 full time physicians on staff, the girls have to get
checked for disease every 90 days in order to keep their license

(Yes,

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
there
are hooker permits there.)

...and at any time within those 90 days the girls could have caught a
disease and passed it onto hundreds of men.

Post by Viper
In addition to the obligatory bedrooms, there are
25 hot tubs, 10 saunas, several gyms, and numerous places where can go

for

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Viper
a
fun romp with the girl(s) of one's choice. The Mustang Ranch even has a
private landing strip for those that want to fly in for a

quickie.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw
Nevada is just one State. In Hamburg Germany they have the

Reeperbahn.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw
This is an enclosed neighbourhood filled with brothels, bars and theatres.
Very pricy and also well-regulated, supervised, etc. However,

congregating

Post by Heidi Graw
around this Reeperbahn and extending for several blocks adjacent to the
Reeperbahn are illegal brothels which are cheaper and which many

men

Post by Heidi Graw
choose

Post by Heidi Graw
as that more affordable alternative option. These are breeding

grounds

Post by Heidi Graw
for

Post by Heidi Graw
disease.
It wouldn't be so bad if the men who use prostitutes *remain* using

them

Post by Heidi Graw
for

Post by Heidi Graw
their entire lifetimes.

That's called marriage.
This would at least limit the spread of disease

Post by Heidi Graw
infecting non-prostitutes. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

For the

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Heidi Graw
most part men who use prostitutes will still fuck their wives and/or
girlfriends, thus spreading the disease even further.

I don't know if that's true. Any guy who can get a girlfriend or wife can
certainly get another. So he might be married and fucking another girl but
why would he pay a whore?

Plenty of reasons. If he's married, he may not want to get a
girlfriend
or mistress because she might pose a threat to the marriage.
Supposedly, married men often go to prostitutes when their
wives are pregnant and they aren't getting nookie at home
for a temporary period of time.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Mark Sobolewski]

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a brothel! Not
in this day and age or any other! You have no idea just what sort of
disease the prostitute has. She could be HIV positive! And just think of
all the other low-lifes who've had their disease infested pricks poking
around in her. YUK!!!

Are you saying that young men can't catch VD from "normal"
girls in normal hook-ups? A woman whom I know works
in secondary education tells me that statistics show
that 20% of so of teens have contracted HERPES!!!
That's friggin incredible. I know of men who have
had bastard children after a first sexual encounter.
At least this sexual encounter is occuring under
professional adult supervision.

Plus there's the greater emotional issues: Rejection
can be devestating. Check out soc.singles sometime. :-)
To have a sexual encounter where he doesn't have to
put on a dog and pony show is incredibly emotionally
empowering.

Instead of buying him a pass at some filth, it would be much safer if you
bought him a ticket to bungee jump or fall out of an airplane clinging to a
trained and fully qualified parachutists.

Do parachutists demand alimony or support years later
for compensation for him having jumped years before? :-)

I hate to be rude, Heidi, but I think you're being
insensitive (Andre or GA would just say without apology
that you're being a self-centered bitch :-)

Young women are born into a world where they take access
to sex for granted. Even for attractive men, sex
is something they have to be on their best behaviour
to obtain. That can be incredibly humbling.

This doesn't mean that girls don't have problems.
I think they need to be VERY carefully monitored lest
they develop princess complexes, become psuedo prostitutes,
get into puritanical guilt trips, engage in self
destructive sexual behaviours (sluts or the "Samantha SatC syndrom",
etc.

I'll bet he'd find either of
those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some strange
woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

That's YOUR opinion. Some men would find what you just
said, word for word, very exciting. Young boys go through
porno magazines. It's perfectly normal. Your reaction is
precisely why, I think, young boys at this age really need a father
figure! Single mothers I know have reacted inproperly
and condemned young boys when they caught them looking
at porn. This is like condemning little girls for
looking at teen fashion magazines or playing with cosmetics.

Don't do it! Really! Far better to just let your son find himself a nice
girlfriend who hasn't been around the block too many times and let him do
this when *he* feels ready for sex....not when *you* think it's time!

I would never suggest dragging him out to the brothel if he
wasn't ready and even excited about the idea!

As I said, it's possible that he may already have his cherry
popped by then. If not, and if he has problems getting
a girl to consent, why not give him an ego boost?

I think I've had sufficiently strong discussions with my own sons that I'm
pretty sure they will never ever use a prostitute no matter how desperate
they are. Better to just masturbate.

Shouldn't that be your husband's job? Just as the daughters
are primarily my wife's responsibility.

The key to a prostitute encounter is so that the boys
don't feel desperate. After I went a few times, I
was able to put sex into perspective and not feel
that masturbation was inferior because I had a benchmark
to compare it to.

Did you ever see "One flew over the cookoos nest?"
A young man who had severe self-confidence problems
and a stutter went to a prostitute and he was like
a new man. That's how I think a lot of men feel.

...and if you choose to have sex, wear a condom! Never leave home without
one! ;-)
Heidi

Indeed. So we come full circle to where a man has to be just
as careful with a normal woman as with a prostitute.

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Heidi Graw]

Post by Mark Sobolewski

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his birthday.

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a brothel!
Not
in this day and age or any other! You have no idea just what sort of
disease the prostitute has. She could be HIV positive! And just think of
all the other low-lifes who've had their disease infested pricks poking
around in her. YUK!!!

Are you saying that young men can't catch VD from "normal"
girls in normal hook-ups?

Not at all. However, their chances for catching diseases like HIV and
genital herpes is greatly reduced. That prostitute can have had *hundreds*
of sex partners, whereas the teenage girl in highschool would not have had
that many encounters!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
A woman whom I know works
in secondary education tells me that statistics show
that 20% of so of teens have contracted HERPES!!!

Yep, it only takes one sexually promiscuous girl to catch an infection and
pass it on to the boys who in turn pass it along to their girlfriends.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
That's friggin incredible.

And just think how many sex partners that prostitute has had! And she's not
in a position to pick and choose her clients...not with a pimp watching her
activities.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
I know of men who have
had bastard children after a first sexual encounter.
At least this sexual encounter is occuring under
professional adult supervision.

I see. You're going to watch your son have sex with that prostitute? Do
you really think he'd want you watching?

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Plus there's the greater emotional issues: Rejection
can be devestating. Check out soc.singles sometime. :-)

If it's known your son has frequented numerous prostitutes, he's not likely
to get much attention from "normal" girls.

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Young women are born into a world where they take access
to sex for granted. Even for attractive men, sex
is something they have to be on their best behaviour
to obtain. That can be incredibly humbling.

There's one hell of a difference between a girl having had one or two sex
partners, than one who on a regular basis has sex with hundreds of men!

(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski

I'll bet he'd find either of
those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some strange
woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

That's YOUR opinion. Some men would find what you just
said, word for word, very exciting. Young boys go through
porno magazines. It's perfectly normal.

It's not the sex act that I find offensive. It's that mouth that's been
sucking on other diseased pricks and then is paid by you to suck on your
son's!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Your reaction is
precisely why, I think, young boys at this age really need a father
figure!

Well...just think: my sons' father, who is also my husband, finds sex with
prostitutes *offensive.* He would never in a million years spend money on
women who've had hundreds of other pricks noodling them. The whole idea of
exposing himself to the filth and disease that other men left behind, he
finds appalling. My husband has also warned our sons against using
prostitutes!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Single mothers I know have reacted inproperly
and condemned young boys when they caught them looking
at porn.

That's not what I'm condemning. My focus is on lessening the risk of
disease that my sons could end up. Is there zero risk protection? No.
However, sex with a prostitute is considerably more dangerous than sex with
a girl who might have had only one or two partners previously. Even under
such circumstances one needs to be heedful. Even that virgin could have
genital herpes because she had sucked a disease infected prick. That virgin
could also be HIV positive!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
I would never suggest dragging him out to the brothel if he
wasn't ready and even excited about the idea!

You said you'd take him to a brothel on his 16th birthday. Are now changing
your mind about that?

Post by Mark Sobolewski
The key to a prostitute encounter is so that the boys
don't feel desperate.

<chuckle> My two sons, now almost 18 and 19 never had to feel desperate.
They are both *chick magnets.* ;-) But, my boys are choosy and very picky!
They're not into sluts or prostitutes.

Post by Mark Sobolewski
So we come full circle to where a man has to be just
as careful with a normal woman as with a prostitute.

Well...just think...whenever you have sex with any women, you'll have had
sex with all her previous sex-partner's, too. Which is less
offensive...inserting your dick into a cunt that has had perhaps only 2 to 3
different sex partners, or insert it into one where *hundreds* of men had
ejaculated, possibly with diseased infested pricks?

Heidi

[m***@yahoo.com]

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski

(snip)

Post by m***@yahoo.com
I'll be taking my
son, if I have one, to a brothel when he turns 16 on his

birthday.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski

Mark, if you love your son you would *not* be taking him to a brothel!
Not
in this day and age or any other! You have no idea just what sort of
disease the prostitute has. She could be HIV positive! And just

think

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski

of
all the other low-lifes who've had their disease infested pricks poking
around in her. YUK!!!

Are you saying that young men can't catch VD from "normal"
girls in normal hook-ups?

Not at all. However, their chances for catching diseases like HIV and
genital herpes is greatly reduced. That prostitute can have had *hundreds*
of sex partners, whereas the teenage girl in highschool would not have had
that many encounters!

That's like saying it's ok for small children to play in traffic
provided the street isn't that busy. :-)

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
A woman whom I know works
in secondary education tells me that statistics show
that 20% of so of teens have contracted HERPES!!!

Yep, it only takes one sexually promiscuous girl to catch an

infection and

Post by Heidi Graw
pass it on to the boys who in turn pass it along to their

girlfriends.

This language sounds very loaded. Sexually promiscuous girls
"catch" VD while girlfriends have it "passed on". Yes, I know
that the phrases are partly based upon it's placement in the
sentence but your language suggests that "bad girls" somehow
are like porcupines who blast VD like skunks. :-)

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
That's friggin incredible.

And just think how many sex partners that prostitute has had! And she's not
in a position to pick and choose her clients...not with a pimp

watching her

Post by Heidi Graw
activities.

In brothels, women get to pick and choose their clients.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
I know of men who have
had bastard children after a first sexual encounter.
At least this sexual encounter is occuring under
professional adult supervision.

I see. You're going to watch your son have sex with that prostitute?

Do

Post by Heidi Graw
you really think he'd want you watching?

I didn't mean at that close level. :-)

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Plus there's the greater emotional issues: Rejection
can be devestating. Check out soc.singles sometime. :-)

If it's known your son has frequented numerous prostitutes, he's not likely
to get much attention from "normal" girls.

Now that depends. If he's having self-esteem issues as I did when
I was 16, then whether he's been to a hooker or not will be the
least of his problems when it comes to women. If his self-confidence
level is higher, then it may work out in his favor.

Also, not all women are like you just as not all men are like me.

Post by Heidi Graw
(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Young women are born into a world where they take access
to sex for granted. Even for attractive men, sex
is something they have to be on their best behaviour
to obtain. That can be incredibly humbling.

There's one hell of a difference between a girl having had one or two sex
partners, than one who on a regular basis has sex with hundreds of men!

If a normal girl is VD positive, does it matter whether your son
has sex with her one time or many?

If you're going to be polly priss about VD, then you should
advocate ABSTINANCE. It's that simple.

Post by Heidi Graw
(snip)

Post by Mark Sobolewski

I'll bet he'd find either of
those adventures far more exciting that getting a blowjob by some strange
woman who sucked gawd's knows what other pricks! Eeeeehhhh...

That's YOUR opinion. Some men would find what you just
said, word for word, very exciting. Young boys go through
porno magazines. It's perfectly normal.

It's not the sex act that I find offensive. It's that mouth that's been
sucking on other diseased pricks and then is paid by you to suck on your
son's!

I have a cute response to that, but you're just so tense about this
subject I best keep it to myself. :-)

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Your reaction is
precisely why, I think, young boys at this age really need a father
figure!

Well...just think: my sons' father, who is also my husband, finds sex with
prostitutes *offensive.* He would never in a million years spend money on
women who've had hundreds of other pricks noodling them. The whole idea of
exposing himself to the filth and disease that other men left behind, he
finds appalling. My husband has also warned our sons against using
prostitutes!

Has he warned them against women having bastard babies and
coming after them later? Paternity fraud? (the original
subject line?) Women using them to get free dates and meals?
Women using men for money?

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
Single mothers I know have reacted inproperly
and condemned young boys when they caught them looking
at porn.

That's not what I'm condemning. My focus is on lessening the risk of
disease that my sons could end up. Is there zero risk protection?

No.

Sure there is: ABSTINANCE.

Your sons could simply wait until marriage of they are in a
very committed relationship and THEN get checked out by
a doctor along with their girlfriends. If you're that
freaked out over disease, that's the way to go.

Post by Heidi Graw
However, sex with a prostitute is considerably more dangerous than sex with
a girl who might have had only one or two partners previously. Even under
such circumstances one needs to be heedful. Even that virgin could have
genital herpes because she had sucked a disease infected prick. That virgin
could also be HIV positive!

Post by Mark Sobolewski
I would never suggest dragging him out to the brothel if he
wasn't ready and even excited about the idea!

You said you'd take him to a brothel on his 16th birthday. Are now changing
your mind about that?

I said I'd take him. I didn't say I'd force him to have sex.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
The key to a prostitute encounter is so that the boys
don't feel desperate.

<chuckle> My two sons, now almost 18 and 19 never had to feel

desperate.

Post by Heidi Graw
They are both *chick magnets.* ;-) But, my boys are choosy and very picky!
They're not into sluts or prostitutes.

I'll be nice and say good for them!

However, even so, your boys still have to watch their mouth.
For example, women such as you say that you'd dump a man who
slept with a prostitute, yes? So even your boys no doubt also
have other things they need to avoid saying lest women reject them.

The key thing that's mind blowing (pardon the pun) about a prostitute
is that they aren't going to judge the man based upon what he
says or the act he puts on. It's very liberating. It's interesting
that feminists who preach blah blah blah about freedom from
Patriarchal oppression think nothing of pulling out the Pussy Whip
lest the guy get too uppity.

Post by Heidi Graw

Post by Mark Sobolewski
So we come full circle to where a man has to be just
as careful with a normal woman as with a prostitute.

Well...just think...whenever you have sex with any women, you'll have had
sex with all her previous sex-partner's, too. Which is less
offensive...inserting your dick into a cunt that has had perhaps only 2 to 3
different sex partners, or insert it into one where *hundreds* of men had
ejaculated, possibly with diseased infested pricks?
Heidi

2 or 3 different sex partners? Maybe if she's 16 years old!
If she's a modern young woman with a healthy social life,
she's going to be able to date a few times per month with
sex with a good percentage of them. Run da numbers.
And when you talk about ejaculating without a condom, it's
these normal women who are more likely to not use condoms
since they'll probably rely upon the pill and their
own sense that this guy is "the one" at the time.

Lessee: Twice per month or so means by the age of 22, these young
girls may have had almost a 100 sexual partners ALL possibly
without using a condom!

regards,
Mark Sobolewski

[Hyerdahl]

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

The biggest fraud in the history of mankind is paternity fraud. In

the

late forties a "study" of 1000 newborns indicated that 1 in 10
husbands was excluded as the father. The exclusion was based on blood
type alone. DNA testing would have revealed a much higher rate.

You mean that when Joseph married Mary, he was deceived? Shocking!

He was just a simple old carpenter who in fact was deceived. But more likely
a kind older man who didin't want to see Mary stoned to death by the
barbaric yids.

Looks like this guy is a bigot as well as a fool.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

:-)
The biggest fraud in the history of womankind is the male godhead, I
guess. In the meantime, every father has the RIGHT to have his
children tested for DNA. So 'quityerbitchin'.
If the rate of paternity fraud was in the order of 15% in the
forties> > what do you think it is today?
I don't see anything in society that would have caused the rate to
change, but evenso, since fathers have the right to have the DNA of
their own kids tested, what difference could it possibly make?

Yes, it's probably the same. After all females have always been whores.
And males have always been whoremongers. :-) Do you really believe

that women today flinch at name calling?

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

How many grandpas proudly extolled the superiority of their

grandsons,

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

ignorant of the fact that the superiority came from a superior stud
in> no way related to poor grandpa.
Who cares? If gramps cared that much he could have his son's DNA

I should have had yours tested. Any man who wants to have his willy cut off
and become a female is no relation of mine. I should have known something
nasty was going on when your grandmammy was spending too much time in the
woodshed when those circus freaks were in town.

Hahahahahahaha....poor baby has to role play to get his nuts off.
That's really sad.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

tested now. Apparently, most grampas enjoyed raising the sons they did
raise. It is probably relatively unimportant to them at this point in
time, to disavow parenting.

What primitive sluts most women are.

And again, what idiot slutmongers some men are...men like you, dear.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

Yadda, yadda.... Women today don't even care what you bitter boys call
them; they lift their eyes skyward, call you a dickwad in return,

No lady would use such language.

Women today have more need to be their own boss than to be called
'ladies'.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung
and > move on.

They slavishly serve the dictates of our primitive past.

You dream. It must take lots of drugs.

They have not evolved, sexually, in keeping with the male evolution.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

Sure they have. Women today have evolved right past you when it comes
to sex. Didn't you watch 'sex and the city'?

Decent females don't behave like the bitches from hymietown.
Smart women do as THEY please, and call you dickwads as they pass you

by. Men like you have to buy inflable dolls, fuck knotholes, or go to
Thailand to buy wives. You are pathetic dear, and quite the dying
patriarch.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung
Women boink who they want, marry if they wish, and only give life to

the children they want. I'd say that was hugely evolutionary.

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

They still lust after the biggest, strongest> thug in the herd even as
intelligence now is the real indicator of superiority.
So then, you have an explanation for why 8% of women who are

genetic

Post by Grandpappy Hyerdung

celebrities are chased and wooed by 89% of the world's men, and you
call women Neanderthals? :-)

Civilized man has always attempted to control the sexuality of woman.

Indeed. That's my point. But today it does them little good because
women have told them to fuck off.

Not if they get a knuckle sandwich for their disrespect :o)

That's ok; more women are buying guns to blow off the ugly violent
heads of violent dickwads. That works for me. Fewer violent dickwads.

[Dave Symn]

Post by Hyerdahl
Women today have more need to be their own boss than to be called
'ladies'.

A) You don't speak for all women

B) If you aren't a female, how in the fuck would you know what even one
female wants?

C) Your statement is pathologically stupid and unconvincing.

D) You couldn't out-debate a 6th grader.

E) Your writing style is atrocious.

F) Glad I could help.

[Avenger]

Post by Dave Symn

Post by Hyerdahl
Women today have more need to be their own boss than to be called
'ladies'.

A) You don't speak for all women
B) If you aren't a female, how in the fuck would you know what even one
female wants?

But he wants to be a female that's why he's so bitter. Medicaid told him
he's too old for a sex change operation besides being mentally unbalanced.

Post by Dave Symn
C) Your statement is pathologically stupid and unconvincing.
D) You couldn't out-debate a 6th grader.
E) Your writing style is atrocious.
F) Glad I could help.

[Dave Symn]

Post by Avenger

Post by Dave Symn

Post by Hyerdahl
Women today have more need to be their own boss than to be called
'ladies'.

A) You don't speak for all women
B) If you aren't a female, how in the fuck would you know what even one
female wants?

But he wants to be a female that's why he's so bitter. Medicaid told him
he's too old for a sex change operation besides being mentally unbalanced.

I suggest Parg fuck off to Montreal, and get its genitalia frozen off,
whatever it happens to be.

Plemty of dickless america haters up there.

[Andre Lieven]

Post by Dave Symn

Post by Avenger

Post by Dave Symn

Post by Hyerdahl
Women today have more need to be their own boss than to be called
'ladies'.

A) You don't speak for all women
B) If you aren't a female, how in the fuck would you know what even one
female wants?

But he wants to be a female that's why he's so bitter. Medicaid told him
he's too old for a sex change operation besides being mentally unbalanced.

I suggest Parg fuck off to Montreal, and get its genitalia frozen off,
whatever it happens to be.
Plemty of dickless america haters up there.

Lots of folks who like the US, too. Like me.

Now, if we should send her to a really cold place, might I suggest
Resolute Bay ? Far colder than Montreal, which just had some over 80F
weather this week...

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.